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Interview 7
Rachel has just been appointed as the new Chair of Divinity at the University of Edinburgh, the first woman to hold that post since it was established in 1620. She’s currently Professor of Theology at the University of Leeds, where she’s also a co-chair of the Women at Leeds Network. She’s the author or co-author of several books on Christian theology and ethics.
[Questions by Amy Norton]
Do you consider yourself a feminist? If so, what led you to realise?
I do consider myself a feminist. I got annoyed in my first year of university, studying theology and religious studies, when I realised how few of the books I was reading were by women and how little they said about women. Apparently, as I then found out, being annoyed about things like that, and asking questions about why things were like that, made me a feminist. Getting involved with some women's campaign groups as a student made me both more annoyed about things that were wrong, and more enthusiastic about the possibility for positive change.
Name a woman who has significantly influenced your life and how.
I'm very lucky in my family and my faith community to be surrounded by inspirational women. My mother is someone who's both a wonderful listener - to anyone and everyone, and especially to people whose voices are being ignored - and absolutely clear and confident in her own values and beliefs. I'd like to be able to reflect that in my own academic work.
Share a pivotal moment in your career.
I remember the first time I went into a research seminar as a postgraduate student of theology - it was in a room with lots of big portraits of distinguished academic men in big robes. I was pretty nervous already and there they all were, looking down at me, as if they were wondering what I was doing in their room. I thought - well, I'm also a bit surprised that I'm here, but here I am - so we'll all have to deal with it.
Could you talk about an incident in your career where you felt you were treated differently because of your sex?
I'd rather talk about a positive incident that made me realise what I'd been missing. It was some years into my academic career when I was invited to speak at a conference and I realised that more than half of the main speakers were women. That had never happened to me before, other than at conferences that were focused exclusively on feminist theology! And it felt so liberating to be able to be just myself, not a representative or token woman. I thought "wow, so this is what it feels like to be normal". I have to give credit to the man who organised that conference and deliberately recruited a majority of female speakers - and didn't demand or get any recognition for it, because he thought, rightly, that it shouldn't be a big deal. It was a big deal for me.
If you could have dinner with three women (alive or dead), who would it be and why?
I think Jane Austen would be my top dinner guest - she's such a wonderfully witty observer of human nature and I'd love to hear how she'd speak about her own life. So now I'm wondering whom she would get on with. I'd enjoy hearing Jane comparing notes on novel-writing with Frances Burney, who is also hilarious and wise and deserves a wider contemporary readership. And I'd invite Mary Wollstonecraft, who has a fascinating life story, and I feel she and I could get angry about politics together. Though we might have to tone it down a bit for Fanny and Jane.
What's the book that you always recommend to people and why?
One of many books I recommend is The Color Purple, and I hope people will know why after they've read it - the characters and the voices stay with you for good.
Tell us about something that makes you angry.
It'll be quicker if I tell you things that don't make me angry about the current UK government. Probably top of the list at the moment are the catastrophic decline in truthfulness - or rather, respect for the truth - at the highest levels in public life; and the shameful and inhumane treatment of people seeking sanctuary. All against the background of the massive injustice of ever-increasing poverty in this wealthy country. The challenge is to find ways to focus and channel the anger, and to stay hopeful. In different ways my family, my friends and my faith community help me do that - though there's still a lot of unfocused anger there.
Share with us your favourite album and why?
One of the first albums I bought was Tracy Chapman's debut album and it's still a favourite - the honesty and passion, the mix of the personal and the political, and it's just beautiful music. Still gives me goosebumps.
Could you give us an example of everyday sexism you have faced recently?
I'm always noticing the everyday sexism of marketing - especially marketing to children. Pink and sparkly for girls, blue and tough for boys. I've been alerted to it more and more by the work of campaigns like Let Toys Be Toys , which my sister-in-law is part of. Issues like this might seem trivial, but anything that's encouraging children to think that some activities or colours or interests "aren't for girls" or "aren't for boys" is narrowing children's horizons and perpetuating sexism for yet another generation. And I reckon we've had enough already.
Is there an issue facing women today that you feel most concerned about?
I think many of the biggest issues, at least in this country, are hiding in plain sight. The pandemic showed us just how little attention is paid, by policy-makers, to unpaid care work - whether that's for children, or for adults who need care. The vast majority of unpaid care work is done by women, it's not acknowledged and not supported, and when something happens that means more unpaid care work is needed - for example, closing schools and nurseries - women are just expected to pick up the tab. And the burden falls most heavily on those women who're already struggling financially, and it has huge impacts on physical and mental health. This is now well documented, but there are absolutely no signs that it's being taken seriously in government. Possibly because the women whom it affects don't have the time or the energy to campaign.
What advice would you give to your eighteen-year-old self?
My eighteen-year-old self was struggling with an eating disorder, so I think I'd want to encourage her to listen to her body more and look at it less. And I'd give her the advice my son gives me occasionally when I'm getting too anxious about trying to make things right for everyone else - "You do you". You're not going to make everyone happy, and guess what - it's not your job.
Tell us something few people know about you.
I played the villain's sidekick in an online community pantomime during lockdown 2020. Oh yes I did.
I'd like to say a big thank you to Rachel for this wonderful edition. If you want to read the other interviews in this series, click the buttons below!