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Interview 5
Donna has been described as a “public service pioneer” by the Mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham. She was awarded a CBE in 2009 for innovation in public service and was Transformational Leader in the Northern Powerwomen Awards 2017. She was CEO of Wigan Council for 8 years and developed The Wigan Deal - a new relationship with residents. She created another social contract with residents while CEO at Chorley Council - The Chorley Smile. She is chair of the innovative national think tank New Local promoting a Community Paradigm, Chair of Bolton NHS Foundation Trust and of PossAbilities, a social enterprise supporting people with learning disabilities. She was appointed as an Honorary Professor of Politics at the University of Manchester in August 2019. She is also an Integrated Care System Adviser to NHS England. Adopted as a child she is passionate about person-centred public services and investing in local communities.
Do you consider yourself a feminist? If so, what led you to realise?
I am most definitely a feminist. Everyone should be a feminist. It just means women deserve equal rights to men. Nothing more that that and I can’t understand why people feel embarrassed to say it. I got into politics and feminism when studying English and Politics at Leeds University in the 80s during the miners’ strike. We were demonstrating against something every weekend. It seemed to be a time of radicalism and protest but also of hope for a better future.
Name a woman who has significantly influenced your life and how.
My Mum is the woman who significantly changed my life in so many ways. Despite having nothing she adopted me and my sister and gave us so much love and support right up to the day she died five years ago. She helped us bring up our children, supported us through crises and gave us very honest advice. She had a wicked sense of humour and her judgement was spot on every time. Her brother had gone to university but it wasn’t seen as acceptable for a young girl to do the same so she started work in the local spinning mill aged 14 and worked in textiles her whole life. I miss her every single day.
Share a pivotal moment in your career.
A pivotal moment in my career was at Salford City Council when I got my first ever management role. The job was advertised and people said I should go for it but I didn’t have the confidence. The post wasn’t filled and was advertised again. A colleague said “you’d better go for it this time or else a plonker might get it!” And that was it - my primary motivation was not wanting to be managed by a plonker.
Could you talk about an incident in your career where you felt you were treated differently because of your sex?
There has been so many incidents where where my gender has meant I’ve been treated differently and there’s a danger was can just normalise this behaviour and adapt to tolerate it. One that I recall is meeting a property developer in reception to take him into a meeting and instead of shaking my hand he handed me his coat and said “coffee white with two sugars”. His face was ashen when he realised the meeting was with me.
If you could have dinner with three women (alive or dead), who would it be and why?
Dinner with three women would be my Mum and my two lovely daughters. They are my favourite people and without them I would be nothing.
What's the book that you always recommend to people and why?
My favourite book is “The Goldfinch” by Donna Tarrt. I always recommend it to people because of its beautiful descriptive lyrical writing, the complexity of the story and the breadth of the characters. I’ve read it over and over again and each time I find surprising beauty in each chapter.
Tell us about something that makes you angry.
There is so much to get angry about right now. The arrogance of politicians, the way people have been divided against each other since the Brexit vote, the handling of the pandemic and the double standards, racism, sexism, transphobia, poverty and cuts to public services. Unfortunately I think things will get a lot worse before they get better. We need politicians who understand and represent the daily reality of people’s lives not just from a ruling elite class. I think there will be big change to come.
Share with us your favourite album and why?
I’ve always been into prog rock and my favourite album is Hemispheres by Rush. I’ve loved it since it came out when I was fourteen! I went to see them at Manchester Apollo and we queued up all night for tickets.
Could you give us an example of everyday sexism you have faced recently?
Everyday sexism is endemic. Often we don’t notice it because we’ve adapted to fit in with it. A few weeks ago I was getting my car serviced and the chap said “I think you need to upgrade your car - come back with your husband and we will show you what we have in”
Is there an issue facing women today that you feel most concerned about?
I’m worried about attacks on trans woman by feminists. I just don’t get it. I have many trans woman friends and none of them are a threat to me or my rights. Let’s work together against patriarchy not be divided as it doesn’t work in our favour and preserves status quo.
What advice would you give to your eighteen-year-old self?
I would tell my 18 year old self that I’m not too fat, too spotty and too scared to do the things I want to do. I wouldn’t be so hard on myself and would focus more on being happy not just trying to please everyone else.
Tell us something few people know about you.
When I was 2 my Dad took me to watch Pele training for the World Cup. He stopped playing for a couple of minutes and then Pele and me had a little kick around. My Dad used to tell everyone the story and was really proud. I just can’t believe my Dad didn’t take a picture!!
Thank you to Donna for this interesting edition, click below if you would like to read the other interviews!